Ex-Daily Mail editor claims obtaining ex-directory phone numbers was ‘low on Richter scale of unlawfulness’

The former editor of the Daily Mail has claimed that journalists obtaining ex-directory phone numbers would have been “very, very low on the Richter scale of unlawfulness”.

It is one of several methods of unlawful information gathering that Associated Newspapers Ltd (ANL) is alleged to have commissioned, with Paul Dacre claiming it “may well have been public interest” in obtaining phone numbers, if it was a way to offer someone a right of reply.

Taking questions from David Sherborne, who represents seven high-profile names suing ANL, Mr Dacre was asked if he had been aware that “enquiry agents” had obtained ex-directory numbers and supplied them to his journalists.

The 77-year-old, who is now editor-in-chief of ANL’s holding company DMG Media, said he did not know if this was legal or not, but if it had been unlawful, it would have been “low on the Richter scale”.

Mr Dacre also told the High Court that he had “brought the shutters down” on using private investigators in April 2007, after a “gradual realisation” that they may have been using unlawful methods.

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Prince Harry, Sir Elton John and Baroness Doreen Lawrence, are part of a group of seven high-profile individuals bringing legal action against ANL, accusing them of obtaining medical records, hacking phones, tapping landlines and making payments to police officers.

ANL has strongly denied wrongdoing and is defending the claims, which are also brought by David Furnish, Sir Simon Hughes, Liz Hurley and Sadie Frost.

Referring to a 2007 article regarding travel arrangements for the Duke of Sussex and his then-girlfriend, Chelsy Davy, Mr Dacre said he was not aware of how journalist Rebecca English obtained flight details, which allegedly included Ms Davy’s seat number.

Mr Dacre added that “airlines were very relaxed” about giving out details when he was a journalist, and said he was “totally unaware” of the methods used by Ms English.

In a tense exchange, Mr Dacre was questioned about his knowledge of the arrest of a former Mail on Sunday journalist over unlawful information gathering, stating that the paper was “totally autonomous” from the Daily Mail.

After stating that the late lawyer Eddie Young would have informed him of any problems, Mr Dacre accused Mr Sherborne of twisting his words, and said: “You’re very good at smearing the living, you’re even better at smearing the dead.”

Mr Dacre was also asked about a letter sent by a lawyer acting for Labour MP Clive Betts in August 2010, alleging that his personal details had been obtained unlawfully for a Daily Mail story.

He told the court that he received “maybe hundreds” of messages from “rich and powerful people” each year, who he alleged would use lawyers to try and “suppress” stories.

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In his witness statement, Mr Dacre said: “Of one thing I am sure: if I had been told that there was definitive evidence that a journalist or an agent on their behalf had blagged significant private information which was not in the public interest then I would have been pretty furious.”

During Tuesday’s cross-examination, Mr Dacre told the court, “My heart bleeds for Baroness Doreen Lawrence” after she accused the paper of targeting her with hidden electronic surveillance and tapping her landline.

In his written evidence, he said that it was “inconceivable” that anyone at the Daily Mail would have carried out the alleged activities.

Mr Dacre also said: “The claims of criminality made on behalf of Baroness Doreen Lawrence in relation to the Daily Mail’s 15-year campaign for her murdered son Stephen are especially bewildering and bitterly wounding to me personally.

“Throughout my 26-year editorship, this, of all my countless campaigns, many of which made a significant contribution to the public weal, is the campaign of which I am most proud and to which I devoted the most space.”

He also said it “simply defies reason” for the Daily Mail to use illegal methods to see if other newspapers were getting involved in the Lawrence campaign, later adding: “The suggestion that we ran the campaign to generate exclusive headlines, sell newspapers and profit is sickeningly misplaced and bleakly cynical.”

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Mr Dacre also said he was personally involved in sourcing one of the articles used in Baroness Lawrence’s claim, entitled: ‘Exclusive: Straw orders major investigation after Daily Mail campaign. LAWRENCE: A PUBLIC INQUIRY’.

“I have a very clear recollection that the then home secretary Jack Straw personally gave the story to me,” he said. “The media had been anticipating for a month or so that an announcement of a move by the home secretary was imminent.

“At some stage, Mr Straw called me to a meeting and volunteered the information that he was setting up an inquiry.” He added that he and Mr Straw had been friends from Leeds University, and that he had given the story to the Daily Mail given their campaign for justice.

Mr Sherborne, asked Mr Dacre whether his involvement in the case “is motivated by a desire to protect your legacy” rather than getting a fair outcome.

Mr Dacre replied that while he did wish to clear his name, he also cared about the paper and “the honest and dedicated staff who work for it”.

Later in his written evidence, Mr Dacre said that the “grave and sometimes preposterous allegations” made in the case “have astonished, appalled and – in the small hours of the night – reduced me to rage”.